Yesterday @davidweinberger and I were guests on screen at a @commongroundmcr session in Manchester, hosted by Julian Tait (@Julianlstar) and Ian Forrester (@cubicgarden). We talked for a long time about a lot of stuff (here’s a #cmngrnd search featuring some of it); but what seems to have struck the Chord of Controversy was something I blabbed: “Tracking-based advertising is creepy and wrong… and needs to be wiped out.” Martin Bryant (@MartinSFP) tweeted a video clip and a series of other tweets followed. Here’s a copy/paste, which loses a little between Twitter and WordPress):
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Adam Morgan and Martin Bryant favorited a Tweet you were mentioned in Feb 17: @MartinSFP @dsearls People dont realise how much worse our experiences with ads would be if they werent personalised
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Feb 17: @cyrusradfar @dsearls I prefer personalised advertising, and working for a media startu, it’s better for us. But still, many find it creepy
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Cyrus Radfar @cyrusradfar @MartinSFP @dsearls targeted ads allow new players to enter the market. W/o it, it’s cost-prohibitive and incumbents can only play.
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Feb 17: @MartinSFP @dsearls People dont realise how much worse our experiences with ads would be if they werent personalised
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Stephen @firstconversion @MartinSFP @dsearls People dont realise how much worse our experiences with ads would be if they werent personalised
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Feb 17: Tracking-based advertising is “creepy and wrong… and needs to be wiped out,” says @dsearls #cmngrnd pic.twitter.com/yzUzDmtK80
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Feb 17: Tracking-based advertising is “creepy and wrong… and needs to be wiped out,” says @dsearls #cmngrnd pic.twitter.com/yzUzDmtK80
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Martin Bryant @MartinSFP Manchester, England @cyrusradfar @dsearls I prefer personalised advertising, and working for a media startu, it’s better for us. But still, many find it creepy
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Cyrus Radfar @cyrusradfar @MartinSFP I’d like to debate @dsearls on this topic. I’ll take the side of the advertiser.
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Feb 17: Let’s talk the Cluetrain Manifesto… Here’s @dsearls and @dweinberger. #cmngrnd pic.twitter.com/C86jzvEg6B
Martin Bryant @MartinSFP Manchester, England Tracking-based advertising is “creepy and wrong… and needs to be wiped out,” says @dsearls #cmngrnd
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Raman Frey favorited a Tweet you were mentioned in
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22h: @cyrusradfar @MartinSFP Wow, that was quick. Thanks! Meanwhile, http://projectvrm.org and http://doc.searls.com will also help. #vrm
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@dsearls ha, I’m happy to being proven wrong! That means I’ve learned something. @MartinSFP Will follow up…
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@dsearls @MartinSFP will to learn about your perspective before we debate 😉 pic.twitter.com/5SUljsDI3k
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23h: @cyrusradfar @MartinSFP Read my book first and see if you still want to argue. http://bit.ly/intentioneconomy … #VRM
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So, while Cyrus awaits his copy of the book, I thought I’d share a few links on the topic, before I hit the sack, jet-lagged, here in London.
First, a search for my name and advertising. Among those the one that might say the most (in the fewest words) is this post at Wharton’s Future of Advertising site.
Second, dig pretty much everything that Don Marti has been writing about business, starting with Targeted Advertising Considered Harmful. My case — the one people who like personalized advertising might want to argue with — is Don’s. He became my thought leader on the subject back when he was helping me with research for The Intention Economy, and he’s been adding value to his own insights steadily in the years since. (BTW, I’m not a stranger to the business, having been a founder and creative director for Hodskins Simone & Searls, one of Silicon Valley’s leading ad agencies back in the last millennium.)
When I get a chance I’ll write more on the topic, but for now I need some sleep.,
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I would agree much more if you said “unsolicted tracking based advertising is creepy”. Something like “tell me what service stations are close to the next intersection” is not creepy and it’s a more convenient than the highway signs. “Show me their menus” as I walk along considering restaurants is similar to the practice of posting menus outside. The key change is that I’ve switched it from CRM to VRM by including the customer solicitation for a kind of tracking ad. That removes most of the creepy.
I’m amazed the word “convenient” only appears once on this page, and it’s from a comment not the main article.
Why would you want random advertising (such as the TV) promoting say, tampons? Wouldn’t you prefer targeted advertising, promoting convenient products such as “here’s the latest VRM book” for example?
I bought The Intention Economy and liked it a lot. I want to be notified when a second volume is released. And I don’t want to keep checking Amazon.
For this reason, like most people I rely on targeted advertising.
rjh, that would have been a better way to put it. I also think “tell me what service stations are close to the next intersection” does not have to be tracking-based. It also doesn’t just have to serve ads. When I look up “italian restaurants” on Google Maps, I see which ones advertise (they’re red icons) and which ones don’t (little red dots). But I’m also not sure those are tracking-based at all. As with Adwords searches, they are paid augmentations of a search that does not exclude the non-paid ones.
The problem is largely around provenance: what’s that ad doing here? Is it here because I’ve been followed and it’s personalized? If so, by what and how? All of these questions and many more are poorly answered, if at all, by the personalization systems. Even the publishers aren’t clear what ads run where, or why, or in front of whom, in most cases. With old fashioned brand advertising, provenance is obvious. They also aren’t personal, because they are aimed at populations. They also carry an economic signal: “Honda bought this ad because they value the medium and the population the ad is aimed at, and they are serious about letting you know about their company and its products.” The result they’re looking for is familiarity, not a click or a sale on the spot. This kind of advertising is what supported quality “content” back before that word was used for everything. Personalized advertising is a huge part of what’s driving a race to the bottom in both content and advertising itself. It pays for eyeball bait. Again, Don Marti has a lot more to say about all this. So go check his stuff out.
Bradley, two things.
First, you saying “I want to be notified when X is available” does not have to be tracking-based. In fact it’s a form of what in the VRM development world we call “intentcasting.” You’re in charge of it.
Second, there are two kinds of targeted ads. One is targeted at populations. The other is targeted at individuals. Of the latter, there are too many kinds to list here. The relatively innocent kind is like old fashioned direct mail. They have your address and know a little bit about you, and send you offers or whatever. The creepy kind is based on unwelcome tracking, and presumptuous about what you might want to see.
I’m also not sure anybody relies on any kind of advertising, other than the kind they seek out, such as classifieds or billboards telling you there’s a motel at the next exit. But maybe you mean something else by “rely.” Not sure.
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When people wake up to this information squirrelled away in a techy little exclusive corner they are in for a shock, There was whole load of eyetracking and uploading of actual biometric patterns to various AIs and marketing databases going on ove the past ten years, they were scanning the behavioural models of “volunteers” at random then publishuing results after claiming they would delete them, marketing them to big companies.
Eye tracking and behavioural manipulation directly focused on the customer linked to mouse tracking and camera access and such?
Its derren brown territory but practiced by nefairious little creeps like this one…
meet “doctor” jon Dodd.
He wants to stroke your brain after he has hypnotised you a little , some of the most dangerous people on earth are being totally ignored and you are buying pretty much anything they want you to.
Watch how he demonstrates is perception of the human mind, to him its a programmable entity.
Caution:
before watching this video be warned to watch for Mr dodds insertion of some rather base subliminals and tricks into his presentation.
He does this to separate the audience into non psychopaths and psychopaths, he is talking about some sophisticated hypnotic coercion techniques and he uses various ones throughout the video…
the subtext is that he is initiating the audience into a secret club of coercive method…
its titled perception but ther theory is always coercion.
He is practically brimming over with the hubris and “duping delight” of the psychopath and his manner has some disturbing sexual undertones to it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S_j7JYTJTY
The sheer technical expertise and science behind the market of psychological coercion and abuse raises some very interesting questions.
The main one being how do we stop psychopaths using them to drive us all to hell in a handbasket, many people are hugely susceptible to coercive influence yet this is a fact rarely discussed openly by those who know and understand such processes.
half hidden blog posts that dont actually address whats already been done like we werent in some hideous targeted buzzfeed mind altering system already.
These coercion tools are routinel y used to start wars…and in 6he internet we have the perfect delivery system, total connectivity.
MKultra was very real and is now being tried less aggressively and to far greater effect to sell maseratis and an entirely corrupt global banking system…
and it amounts to nothing m,ore than perceptive sleight of hand religions thankfully havent twigged onto yet..
oh they have…welcome to ISIS world, brought to you by endless pointless consumption and internet propaganda.
enjoy.
No popint arguing with me as i wish i was wrong in any case.
but you have had yopur brain “stroked” yet the video sitting there on youtube has only 350 views.
he data they published has disappeared when i told them id left some markers in it, all brushed up nothing to see here.
except a few billion chnging hands between which gambling companies who track the feeds of gamblers mercilessly, cutting deals across cookie providers, hacking into each others cookies, renting feeds….
the world of crowd sourced data is a murky world of trading algorythms behavioural modellers and trcakers all designed to profit off societyies every move before society even knows it going to move.
He can stroke your brain and you fall for ir every time.
Its not the facial recognition you want to be worried about, its the coercion of your eye to embed ideas that are not your own.
i think they have it in the new xbox, the cameras good enough and you dont move your head much when gamig do you.
the mind boggles…or doesnt…dpends whether the advertisers want it to or not.
If you’re unaware of tracking based advertising, it would seem almost subliminal to most, and trickery to others. I do find it annoying once every advertisement shown is for what I’ve previously been looking for.
Of course there’s room for personalization but it almost seems like stalking in a way, until you finally give in, then still it continues until your browser’s history is cleared. It’s an innovative stage, but far from perfected, and until is is perfected an ad-blocker will definitely be in use.